Cut n' paste
Okay, this is funny. Check out the web site of Kathy Konst, running for Congress in the primary in NY-26.
That site is here.
Now check out the site for Paul Tonko, running for Congress in a primary in the 21st district.
That site would be here.
Notice something?
Hello, campaigns: if you paid for a custom site, you just got screwed. And if you think it's enough to have the exact same site as someone else, newsflash: it's not.
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2008 Elections | Kathy Konst | Paul Tonko
It's just lame, Daniel.
Submitted by Bouldin on 25 June 2008 - 11:57pm.
You're trying to sell an individual product, literally an individual. The web is the primary political information source for high-info voters. If you put as little thought into that as is suggested by this, you're going to both look disinterested and aloof, and you're also going to lose the value that comes from actually engaging with the online audience.
It's like using the same mailers as the guy in the next county. that wouldn't occur to anyone, why should this?
Cookie-cutter sites
Submitted by Dan Jacoby on 25 June 2008 - 4:31pm.
The problem with cookie-cutter sites here is that the two districts are too close to one another. If one race were in NY and the other in, say Iowa, the candidates might get away with it. But there are far too many people who look at all the races in a single state -- and get word around -- for these two candidates to do it.
This does shine light on what is common practice in party politics -- candidates being pressured to hire party-connected consultants. In 2006, [at least] two Democratic candidates refused to do so. They won their primaries against DCCC-backed candidates, and then beat incumbent Republicans. They are Carol Shea-Porter (NH-1) and Jerry McNerney (CA-11). But for the most part, candidates are pushed so hard to accept "help" from the party that they end up with the situation we have with Konst & Tonko.
Anything of pertinence?
Submitted by Gothanonymous Reader (not verified) on 25 June 2008 - 7:38pm.
Seriously...I would love to see a blog discuss pertinent information regarding this campaign. Ok, so they have the same web designer- but really, lets talk about the issues. Would you rather have a qualified congressional representative with a website that has similarities with another- or an inexperienced congressional candidate who bought his way to the house?
Discuss....
The pertinent issue
Submitted by Bouldin on 25 June 2008 - 11:53pm.
is that your candidate doesn't believe his/her message is strong enough to demand its own identity. Seriously, this is amateur stuff, in part because
of course
someone was going to notice it.
Get a grip, NYC Folks!
Submitted by albany local yokel on 27 June 2008 - 7:31pm.
NYC people are a hoot. You fail to understand the differences between upstate and downstate.
If I paid for a super duper unique site, I might be a little pissed. But other than that, who cares? Lots of folks use templates to build websites, That's why it's so easy! Everything is "canned" these days.
Furthermore, Konst is running in Western NY. She's practically in BUFFALO! Tonko is running in Eastern NY. We're just a hop, skip and a jump from Vermont and Massachusetts. Why would someone in Tonko's district look at or care about a website for a district that's about a FIVE HOUR drive away?!
News flash to geographically challenged NYC people (helloooo Dan Jacoby), Eastern NY and Western NY are as far apart as some states! NYS is a BIG place. It's not like NYC where everyone is watching everyone else since they are all jammed together.
So, let me say that I am a voter in the 21st district. How about the rest of you guys? I'll be voting for Paul. I don't give a crap about the website for some race in Western NY. I bet that nobody else in my district does either. Lots of us have never even BEEN to Buffalo!
p.s. Paul's running ahead of the other Dems in a recent poll cited by Liz from the Daily Politics. That's excellent news!
Cheers,
topo gigio
With all due respect...
Submitted by mole333 on 27 June 2008 - 8:00pm.
As managing editor of Daily Gotham's companion site, Culture Kitchen, I deal with a national audience. Among the states I deal with routinely and happily are Iowa, Wisconsin and Tennessee...and even Alaska. So I think I have a clue about the world outside NYC. And quite honestly, a good website is a bare minimum for a candidate to win these days. And a candidate has to be aware of crappy service by a hired service.
I do not in any way criticize your choice of candidate. I have yet to pay attention to that particular race given the many races I have been asked to be involved in. But Bouldin is bringing up a reasonable point. These campaigns want to look professional AND unique. What he brings up compromises both.
So, rather than denegrating NYC, you might want to realize that we deal with campaigns all across the country and have some idea what we are talking about. If you want to advocate for your favorite candidate, please do. But do so based on issues and strategy, not on attacking NYC, a place probably sympathetic to your views.
Good lord, mole...
Submitted by albany local yokel on 27 June 2008 - 8:44pm.
Honestly, mole. Aren't you getting just tad high and mighty with all that "as managing editor" and denigrating NYC stuff?"
Let me say this again. I LIVE IN UPSTATE NY. I LIVE IN THE 21ST DISTRICT. I've lived there for a long time. As such, I think that I have a better idea of what's important to people around here than folks from NYC.
Now, don't get me wrong, I really like NYC. I've been there many times. BUT...the cultural mindset of folks from NYC is different from upstate.
Let me give you a somewhat removed example. Folks who work in Albany are very attuned to every little nuance of actions taken by the Senate or the Executive or the Assembly. We can all read can read the tea leaves like it's nobody's business. But if I had a nickel for every person I talked to who didn't even know that there were two houses in the legislature (Assembly and Senate),I'd be rich! People just aren't as attuned to details like you are suggesting -- whether we're talking about Bouldin's post or a million other things.
Now it's unfortunate if your feathers have been ruffled by someone who didn't agree with you guys. But you're wrong about this one. The similar websites that Boulding has pointed out are of no consequence in the scheme of things as far as the 21 st district race goes.
Regards,
TG
p.s. I've lived all over the U.S. I've also worked in state government for a long time. Despite not being a managing editor of anything, I think that I knpw a little about politics too. As Tip O' Neill said: All politics is local. I'm as local as it gets.
Dude
Submitted by mole333 on 28 June 2008 - 10:16am.
You are the one who was all "Oh you foolish NYC people don't know about the rest of us." All I was pointing out is we probably have far more contact and experience with campaigns around the country than you realize. Hell, I was one of the early people Andrew Rice's campaign (Oklahoma) contacted when he first started running. So please, don't tell us we don't know what we are talking about. You are entitled to your opinion, but you are the one who was all high and mighty and honestly it was kind of obnoxious.
As to the imnportance of a good website, come on, friend. This is the 21st century. Don't try to tell me people in your area are any less computer savvy than New Yorkers. It would be an insult to your neighbors. And let me say that these two politicians aren't the only ones with mediocre websites. Too many politicians have disorganized or difficult to navigate websites. And it is generally a good indication of a disorganzied campaign.
Would those of you who know that individually designed
Submitted by Daniel Millstone on 28 June 2008 - 4:50pm.
websites are an appropriate use of resources, cite to some data? How about you who know that site design is unimportant? Do you have any data?
Do we know that candidates who use "cut & paste" websites lose or even raise less money, than those who hire design deities?
I am a great fan of making decisions based on the best data out there. Now I agree that educated intuitions are not chopped liver (though I love chopped liver), but advocates who are clear that better designed websites produce better results, (and their opponents) can and should be more persuasive.
Changing Horses in the Middle of a Stream
Submitted by albany local yokel on 30 June 2008 - 2:05am.
Mole & Millstone --
You have changed the topic of discussion. I'm not surprised.
The argument originally presented in Bouldin's post was that it was a BIG DEAL that Tonko's website looked like one for somebody all the way out in the god forsaken Buffalo area. I still claim that that's silly. I assume that you now agree since you've both changed the argument to "a good website is important." I never said that it wasn't. Show me where I did. Yes, a decent website is important. We agree. And Tonko has a decent website. Case closed.
I think that this thread all boils down to ego issues at the Daily Gotham. I'll leave you folks to work on that.
BTW, Obama is obviously in big trouble! Take a look.
Well
Submitted by mole333 on 30 June 2008 - 6:48am.
Look, my main comment was a response to your claim that us poor, benighted NYC don't have a clue about you upstaters. I was merely pointing out that we have far more experience with the world outside NYC than you are giving us credit for. You want to debate with Bouldin about the website issue, be my guest. I don't even necessarily agree that it is that big a deal. But I assure you Bouldin probably knows a lot more about upstate politics than you realize. And about campaigns.
Addendum
Submitted by albany local yokel on 30 June 2008 - 2:09am.
I should have addressed my previous comments to mole only. Sorry, Daniel.
I am, Michael, hopelessly behind but:
1)Why are cookie-cutter web-sites not ok? (I assume they're cheaper). I see that you wrote it, but don't understand you're reasoning.
2)How could I know if I don't get value as good from a one-size fits all, as from one individually designed? (That is, what data indicates that individually designed sites are better?)