Let's never forget that defeating an actual Republican is something that should interest most Democrats in NYC. I am sure if VRDC and Three Parks had Republicans of their own to defeat, they wouldn't take an interest in NY-13. But given the number of New Yorkers who have served and died in Iraq (disproportionate to our population) I think it is if interest to every single New Yorker to defeat Vito "Bush Lap Dog" Fossella. Do you object to a citywide interest in preserving Social Security, fighting Corruption, ending the Iraq Quagmire and securing our ports? I would think BOTH Harrison (whose support comes mainly from within the district) and Recchia (whose support comes 70% from outside the district) would be happy that they are getting such widespread interest.

No one objects to Democrats helping Democrats win a general elction (except Republicans). The idea here is take sides in a primary. Differnet topic; different considerations.

TDG gets all in a huff about carpetbagging, and then encourages geographically based clubs to make endorsements in other districts and publcizes them as if they are evidence that their candidates have grass roots support. Grass-roots support in Morningside Heights for a race in Staten Island?

Of course, the carpetbagging concern does not extend to Dan Squadron moving from Riverdale to run in Lower Manhattan, either.

Of course, if TDG were consistent, it would be urging Three Parks to use its resources during the primary to dump members of the Assembly in its own backyard if they are both pro-Silver and anti-congestion pricing. The only way to dump the Speaker you've branded as evil incarnate is to change the conference. Surely, an upper-Manhattan member who opposes congestion pricing in a district where it surely commands support would seem a good start.

Wouldn't Three Parks be better advised to aid the crusade for reform by leading a fight to dump Danny O'Donnell?

Of course, my suspciion is that none of you give a rat's ass about congestion pricing.

Cause if you did, you'd have to be supporting Recchia against Harrison.

First of all, TDG does not get "in a huff about carpetbagging." Some bloggers might, but that does not reflect the opinion of all of us here on TDG. The point of this forum is that we all want to get rid of Vito Fossella, and we want not only the candidate most likely to accomplish that but also the person who would make the best possible congressman. Most of us have not met one or both of the Democratic candidates; this forum could give us an opportunity.

Regarding your comment on consistency, whenever you have a wide variety of people (and yes, there is a wide variety within the progressive movement), you're going to get disagreements. If that doesn't satisfy you, I suggest a quote from Walt Whitman: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes." He's talking about one person; we are a large group, and what seem to you to be inconsistencies are the natural result of passionate debate.

And you appear to have your facts wrong on congestion pricing, or perhaps you just didn't express yourself clearly -- Recchia voted for the scheme, while Harrison opposed it.

This is a very strange comment. So much mixing of issues and so many assumptions. Since when is having a forum taking sides? Since when do candidates only get support from within the district? I suspect Recchia does not want people to agree with you since his support is predominantly from outside the district. I don't think he wants people suggesting candidates should only get support from within the district since that would mean he'd have to give back most of his contributions.

Truth is people and organizations often take an interest in races outside their immediate area. Recchia absolutely DEPENDS on this. People's interests aren't always confined to a specific geographic district. For example, people all over Brooklyn might object to Recchia's sopport of known homophobes for judgeships they aren't even qualified for. This was a choice Recchia made that affects many. And all of NYC and America might be concerned about Recchia's stated support for permanent bases in Iraq. That idea would lead to many American deaths, and they won't all be from within Recchia's district.

You also seem to assume TDG is some monolithic organization. Of course it isn't. I for one have never taken sides on either Squadron/Connor or conjestion pricing. In both cases I have mixed feelings. You also are assuming that one is either for or against conjestion pricing. I believe Harrison's official position is that he is for it, but not in the form it was proposed. I know others who feel the same. Do you also believe that opposing Bush's "No Child Left Behind" means you are also opposed to education? One can be supportive of an issue without automatically supporting every method of implementation. Personally I know many progressives who support conjestion pricing for environmental reasons, and many who oppose it because it amounts to a regressive tax. I doubt you will have unity among progressives on this issue unless it can be done in a way that is environmentally beneficial without being regressive. Expecting otherwise is really very unrealistic.

I think it's not unfair to assume there is a TDG position on congestion pricing, given your new banner. If that is indeed New York's one and overwheming issue of public concern, which seems to be the banner's implication, then one must oppose those who opposed congestion pricing. Further, it would seem to dictate opposing even those, like Harrison, who say they favor congestion pricing, but oppose the once-current plan.

Ironically, even that more stringent posture would not dictate opposition to Silver (although many other good reasons might) since he seemed not to oppose the once-current plan, making him MORE of a supporter of congestion pricing than TDG demi-god Steve Harrison, who supports congestion pricing by opposing the once-current plan, in the same way he once opposed Vito Fossella by sending him a check.

Silver, as his party's leader, followed the dictates of his party's conference, which overwhelmingly opposed the plan. There is no dount this hurt him in his district, which clearly felt the other way. Perhaps if he had used the muscle Chris Quinn used (why do you think there was a slush fund?), he could have changed minds. But the normal TDG position is that Silver uses too much muscle.

Or perhaps Silver should let every piece of legislation come to the floor if it could pass, even if dependent on Republican votes. Mind you, congestion pricing wouldn't have passed the Assembly, even with every Republican vote, and despite the Mayor's delusions, it didn't have Republcan vote by a longshot, but it's a fair principle, so let's apply it.

My example is another bill Silver ostensibly favors personally, which, though not supported by his conference, would probably pass if only it were allowed to come to the floor, but Silver shamefully stands in the way of Democracy once again, claiming his hands are tied.

Using TDG logic, he must let this bill come to a vote, so it can pass!

It's the DEATH PENALTY!

The banner reads, "Shelly Silver killed congestion pricing," but makes no further comment. There is no way, from that simple statement, to determine whether whoever made the statement is happy or unhappy about it. It is merely a statement of fact, with no editorial bent underlying it -- Shelly Silver, by refusing to let the plan be voted on, killed it.

Since your basic assumption has no foundation, it stands to reason that everything you draw from that baseless primary claim is invalid. Some of your conclusions might actually be correct, but you have failed to make a case.

Getting back to the subject of this thread:

The forum is designed to let people meet the candidates (and we hope both of them will show -- so far, only one has indicated that he will). It has been created based on the concept that the audience will consist of people who oppose Vito Fossella and want to decide which of his opponents to support.

The fact is, a great deal of monetary and logistical support for many congressional candidates comes from outside their respective districts. I have attended fundraisers here in New York City for people running in districts thousands of miles away. (Note: on that subject, there is a fundraiser coming up on May 5 for Robert Wexler, D-FL.)

Furthermore, in a city where every congressional seat but one is held by a Democrat, Democratic activists without thousands of dollars to give but who want to increase the Democratic majority in the House have very few places where they can make a difference. The 13th CD is one such place. There are strong passions on both sides for both Democratic candidates; perhaps by bringing us all together so we can listen to -- and possibly ask rational questions of -- the candidates, we can form a more informed opinion instead of ranting on the blogs.

That's why I posted the original message. That's what I hope to achieve.

Granted the banner does give such an impression. I will concede that point even though there is no such consensus. The rest of your comment really makes very little sense, particularly given that the diary is simply saying a forum will be held with 2 candidates for the NY-13 Democratic Primary. It isn't a forum on congestion pricing, but a chance for the two candidates to meet people (potential supporters, voters, media, etc.) and answer questions. It doesn't even take sides. It is a forum, plain and simple. You seem to almost be assuming having a forum automatically favors Harrison. Are you saying Recchia doesn't like to face the public? Are you saying that Harrison is guaranteed to come off better? That seems to be your implication.

Your original comment was on whether it was appropriate for clubs outside the district to sponsor such a forum. Now you are ranting about Shelly Silver and progressive hypocricy and a whole bunch of stuff that really has nothing to do with the existence of a forum that gives candidates a chance to meet the public and make their case. One might just get the impression that mention of the name Steve Harrison drives you to irrationality and paranoia.